Red Queen Discussion:We Need To Talk About Maven.

I just finished reading Red Queen a few days ago and I can’t get it out of my head, so I thought I’d start a discussion on my blog about it.

NOTE: this is a DISCUSSION NOT A REVIEW. There will be lots and lots of SPOILERS. If you have not read Red Queen, stop reading this. If you’d like you can check out my mini review on my Tumblr.

OK, so Red Queen. I LOVED IT. I thought it was Amazing. I love books where the characters have powers. I thought Mare had a really cool power. I’ve been fascinating by lightning as a power since I read Winter Be My Shield and this was the type of power the main character Sierra had. This felt as much of a fantasy as a dystopian to me, and fantasy is my fav genre so this was another plus for me.

One of the things I really loved about it was the love square. I’m not the type of reader that hates love triangles. I like them if it’s a good triangle. Sometimes it can be a bit much when an author goes beyond the love triangle, but I thought it worked really well in Red Queen. I really loved the princes, yes that is plural, as in both of them.

OK, so I knew from the moment Mare and Cal met that these two are going to end up together, or so I’m assuming, and I do want them to end up together, I do, but for awhile there I was really going for Maven. At first I wasn’t that fond of him. I felt sorry for Mare having to be engaged to him. But then I started to like him right along with Mare and was totally charmed by him. Though deep down I knew, I just KNEW, he was going to betray her. I was hoping my gut instinct was wrong. I really wanted him to be who he portrayed himself to be and he and Mare to be happy together in their rebellion.
I was devastated by his actions, even though I knew they were coming.I didn’t know the exact extent of his evil though. I’m glad he did really like her in his own twisted way, too bad he was a complete psycho.

Did anyone else feel like this? Was anyone else hoping Maven wasn’t going to betray Mare and they could be together?

At the same time I did still want her to end up with Cal. At least he was genuine. And, as I said before, I think he will be the guy Mare ends up with, and honestly I think they’ll end up ruling together in the end.

And then there is her best friend Kilorn. He didn’t get much airplay, so I didn’t want Mare and him together at all. But I think that is going to change in book two. I think to fight her feelings for Cal, she’ll turn to Kilorn. Poor Kilorn, the best friend never stands a chance.

And wasn’t it great when the brother turned up at the end not dead?

So what are your thoughts on Red Queen? Did you like the princes? Did you fall for Maven’s charm? What do you think will happen in book two?


59 thoughts on “Red Queen Discussion:We Need To Talk About Maven.

  1. I also enjoyed how downplayed the romance was in Red Queen. I would also like Cal and Mare to get together in the end, but at the end of the second book or the end of the series, not sooner. My favorite part of the romance in this book was the fact that in the end Mare said that she was choosing neither of the princes and was instead choosing herself. I don’t see that often in YA novels so it made it extra special.

    1. I loved the part where she chose herself too. After all that betrayal, it would have been so unrealistic if she chose Cal at that moment.

      1. I agree with this!
        Also that yes, Mare chose herself, but Cal also chose is duty to the kingdom and his people. He didn’t choose her when she and Maven thought he would. I really like that.
        Yes he loves her, but hey they’ve only kissed once – don’t throw away the kingdom!

      2. So true, and it was really noble of him to chose his Kingdom, it is sad what Elara made him do. He was just trying to do the best for his people, the way he knew how and I think he ended up getting hurt the most.

    2. This is not exactly a reply to your comment but I just wanted to say something.
      You misunderstood something. Maven only betrayed mare because the queen was controlling his mind.

      1. I just reread my post and I didn’t say it there, but you are right, I do realize he betrayed Mare because he was being controlled by the Queen.

      2. Actually him and his mother carefully created how he would act around Mare; he was fake. His real personality shines through in the end of that book and the rest of the series.

  2. I’m the type that actually quite likes love triangles when they’re done well too! This one in Red Queen was relatively well done, but seriously, I was rooting for Maven! The whole time! I TOTALLY DIDN’T SEE THE TWIST COMING. When it happened I was like O____O and then I was like MAVEN HOW DARE YOU BETRAY ME πŸ˜›

      1. Oh my gosh, I am, too. Maven has been my favorite from the moment he was introduced. His betray totally blindsided me but he is STILL my favorite. I know they won’t end up together after everything that’s happened but I kind of wish they would.

      2. He was such a great character and I kind of wish Mare and him would end up together too, but such a betrayal is too hard to come back from, I think.

  3. I was really sad when Maven betrayed Mare but I also understand what Maven’s been going through that made him do that. I was happy when Mare said that she thought that he was better than him, better than Cal and that she loved him. That made me cry and that fact that Maven did love her in his own twisted way, I was happy at least not everything was all pretense right? When Maven told Mare that she should have hide or hidden heart was actually kind of sad and painful to hear. I vote for Mavey and Cal but I would like to see a little bit more of a twisted love, so Maven set things right with Mare!! πŸ™‚ Love the book!

    1. Yes, I agree. I was happy when Mare said that too, and in the end, Maven would have helped Mare, because, as you said, in his own twisted way he loved her. He just had his mother too much in his mind.
      I loved this book as well and can’t wait for book two.

  4. I just started Red Queen on Saturday and already finished it Sunday (yesterday!) despite a very busy weekend scheduele.
    This kind of story is just up my alley, I’m all giddy about it!

    I didn’t quite connect with Mare to be honest. There’s nothing off about her but I guess I couldn’t truly relate. Although she had many personal values I just never picked up on her personality. Maven and Cal on the other hand! Ah, I absolutely love those boys.
    Maven’s charm had me as soon as he turned it on. At first I was gutted that Mare wasn’t matched up with Cal. Maven was just so cold while Cal was warmth and protectiveness. But Maven truly won me over along the way. Something in me knew that he’d turn at some point though. I really didn’t want to believe but I felt it! I have this hope that Maven isn’t all that evil and bitterness as he turned out in the end. I hope that Elara has infiltrated his brain and has him under some sort of control. I mean, how could he be that loving and understanding without it being real? He may have felt like he was living a bit under Cal’s shadow but they still had great brotherhood – was that just pretend too? I don’t know, I don’t see him as that big of an actor!

    Cal is just everything I love.
    I really love the way he feels about Mare. The dancing lessons, the scene where she asks him if they should be doing this alone when she wasn’t allowed to be alone with Maven, and he just sort of smirks and is like ‘Maybe not, but I don’t care, cause I want to be with you privately’. That was one of my favourite scenes. It was a really cute time and a good kiss.
    And I love that in the end he didn’t choose her. He chose his duties, his obligation to his people. I was actually rooting for him to not pick her since Mare wasn’t keen on him at the moment – I didn’t want him to give himself to her, when she just wanted to use him. So good for Cal on that one!

    In book two I really hope the whole organisation will ‘catch fire’ (just like in catching fire/hunger games). I’m praying for a little more flirting and love/’hate’ between Cal and Mare. I mean, they protected each other in the end when Maven wanted them killed off.

    1. I’m hoping Elara has control of Maven as well. Can he really be the heartless, he was willing to save Mare in the end, if she had of chosen him, so some of it was real. But can you blame him for being so twisted with the mother he has?
      Oh yes, I loved that scene too πŸ™‚
      I’m glad he didn’t chose Mare in that moment as well, that would have been even more heart breaking.
      I love when characters have this whole love/hate thing going on, so I’m really hoping there is going to be more between Mare and Cal in the up coming books. Who knows what’s going to happen in future books. I can’t wait to find out. Thanks for stopping by.

  5. I did see the twist coming from the beginning. I mean we constantly saw how Maven was considered to be his brothers shadow and how resented he was about it. We also got mare telling us over and over how great Maven was compared to cal and with the “anybody can betray anybody” thing it was obvious he would betray them but that was why i liked him from the start, because we knew he would be this crazy son of his mother. He is a really interesting character and i hope we learn more about him and elara.

    I have a problem though, with the whole not choosing anybody from mare. Yes, she said that but in the end her inner monologue of “nothing romantic can happen between us, no matter how much we want to” was so wrong. Why does she assume cal wants something romantic with her? They barely know each other! And that idea that cal loves her because he helped her is weird. He wasn’t risking anything, and of course any sane person would save someone else from death if it cost them nothing.

    It was weird how mare despite having been betrayed by someone so close still goes and makes the same mistake of trusting cal in the train, what if he is also in it? What if he is as crazy as elara and maven? Mare never considers it and trusts cal without a second thought, it’s dumb.

    1. I really hope we learn more about Maven too. I’m hopping his mother is in his head right now, but he overcomes her somehow and isn’t crazy at all and he gets his own happy ending.
      I assume Mare believes Cal isn’t in with Mavin and Elara because Elara made him kill his father? But wouldn’t that be a big twist if he was in on it!
      I’m excited to see what’s going to happen in book two.

  6. Well, i was really rooting for Cal ever since. I feel really bad for him especially when Mare kissed Cal. It just broke my heart. It was like ‘The Selection’ love triangle all over again. Plus they really had a few moments together in the first book.
    i dont even know which part of Maven is true. Sometimes, i’m thinking he has two abilities. Well, yeah almost everyone knew his betrayal coming. Somehow i hoped his betrayal was just a facade, but the ending went too far to be a facade.
    And i’m really bothered by Kilorn, i think he will be the play a big part in the next book. And there it will be ”Shatter me’ X ‘The Selection’

    1. I was rooting for Cal too, and when Maven came into it I was torn. I was hoping his betrayal was a facade as well, but I don’t think it was. I’m really hoping Maven is just being controlled by his mother and isn’t that evil. Well have to wait and see I guess.
      I was bothered by Kilorn too, and agree he will play a big part in the next book.
      I haven’t read the selection so I’m not sure about that. I just want her to be with Cal in the end.

  7. I just finished it this morning ahhh so so so good. But one part im confused about is that Maven says ‘you could have been my Red queen’ at the end but like, i didnt think he gave her that option?? like right after the execution of the king, Maven just starts being cold to her, sends the gaurds after her/cal, and then brings them down to the dungeons? She told him she loved him (Maven) and my only guess is that he just didn’t believe her and thats why he wanted to kill her? idk im just kinda stuck on that part, because he could have just kept her as his queen (i mean she is really powerful and i think a apart of him loved her) rather than try and kill her. Thoughts?

    1. I think he really did love Mare. I think he is being manipulated a lot by his mother, but was willing to keep Mare, no matter what his mother thought, if she wanted to stay with him. From what I remember she chooses herself at the end in the dungeon when he offers her the chance? It’s been a while now since I’ve read it, but I’m sure he offered her a second chance, but she says no and then that makes him so mad he just wants her dead. He wanted her, but only if she wanted him.

  8. Up until the last few chapters I was so torn between Cal and Maven. Cal is the type of guy I normally go for in love triangles. He is warm, sweet, protective and tough. I have to admit I did fall for Maven after a while. He was the overlooked son, always in the shadow of his big brother. I came to really like him and I couldn’t choose who I liked more. With that being said the last few chapters change everything. Mare should have listened to Julian- Maven is just like his mom if not worse. Maven is a psychopath. He was willing to kill his brother all out of envy. Jealously is a major character flaw and probably the flaw I most hate in characters. Maven is neither sweet or kind- he is manipulative and envious. I think he “loved” Mare in his own twisted way. He wanted her because Cal wanted her. He only went after Mare to spite his brother, which is sad. Cal still tried to protect her in the arena,even after she had betrayed him. He really loves her and it isn’t a game to him.
    I want Cal and Mare to eventually end up together. They have chemistry and I think they could be really good together. Cal is tough enough to challenge Mare, but also kind enough to win her heart. I think it’s their fate- they met at the bar for a reason. Julian said Mare was like Cal’s mother and I think that was a bit of foreshadowing on her future with Cal.

    1. Maven was really good at playing the good guy and sucked me right in. I knew what was coming to an extent but hoped it wasn’t going to be so. His mother is really twisted and been twisting his mind since he was born no doubt. I don’t want him back with Mare, but I am hopping maybe their might be a little redemption for him?
      I am really hoping Cal and Mare end up together too. I loved how they met and I loved how he he still protected her in the arena after everything that happened to him. And he is genuine.

  9. Ok, maybe I’m too much of a fanfiction fan, so I’d rather go with the bad boy, and Maven is really what we can call a bad boy, even psycho. BUT, I just love when the nice lady (not so nice after all) ends up changing the bad one. I loved Maven from the very first beginning and I wanted him and Mare to end up together. Kilorn, oh, poor Kilorn, everybody knows he doesn’t stand a chance against our two prince charming. Anyways, it was so realistic when Cal chose the kingdom over Mare, like, he barely knows her. And when she chose herself as well. I finished the book today, gee, I had this weird feeling in my gut of empty, because I thought this was an only book, but rolling in some coments I realized there are gonna be more (?).
    When Mare is in the cell, and Maven is shocked when she says she liked him better than Cal, he told her he could save her, and immediatly the only thing I wanted her to say was “I am not the one who needs to be saved, Maven”. Ah, and another way to make me feel better about my crush on Maven was when Elara is in the room, and Mare is just like “Please save him”, and the queen would say “he doesn’t like you girl, Mav, stop pretending”, and he would be “I stopped pretending long ago”, BANG, HE GETS IN A BATTLE WITH HIS MOM, MARE GETS SHOCKED, THE PALACE ENDS UP BURNING DOWN AND THEY RUN AWAY TO THE GUARD.
    Okay, I got too carried away, but you tell me it wasn’t gonna be surprising as well, hm?
    Sorry, I think this comment ended up being too big, but it was all I wanted to say.

    1. Sorry to take so long to get back to you.
      The Glass Sowrd comes out around Feb 11th and I can’t wait.
      Yes, I think Kilorn doesn’t stand a chance but wouldn’t that be a huge surprise if she does end up with him?
      I would have loved if Maven got in a battle with his mum, that would have been epic. I am hoping he will in future books.
      I think she’ll end up with Cal, but who knows? I would be happy with that, but Maven did have my heart for a little while.

  10. I was also caught up with Maven’s kindness and while part of me was suspicious (especially after Julian’s warning about him being his mother’s son), part of me also hoped I was wrong. I even suspected Kilorn being the one to let Mare down and grow apart form her (like Gale did with Katniss in Hunger Games). I’m just shocked at just HOW psychotic Maven is though, almost to the point where it wasn’t really believable. Deep down, I was hoping he had some remorse. As for Cal, he seemed like the obvious choice from the start, so I suppose it was a bit boring if they ended up together, so if that’s the endgame, I’m sure the author will throw plenty of obstacles in their way.

    All in all, a very captivating read and I can’t wait to see what’s next.

    1. I think Maven isn’t as bad as he seemed, but that his mother is very powerful and has a tight grip on his mind. I am hoping he’ll be able to, or maybe Mare will, defeat the mother and her hold will be broken and he will be the kind person we saw him as. We will just have to wait and see. I can’t wait for book 2.

  11. Team Maven all the way! I feel as though Maven isn’t truly evil all the way through…Elara is probably controlling him in some way or threatening to kill Mare if he doesn’t obey her (“His mother whispers something in his ear and he jolts, brought back to reality. ‘Goodbye, little lightning girl.’ When he raises his hand, I think he might be shaking.” Red Queen, page 375.) I really like Maven’s character as well, he seems far more thoughtful and intelligent than Cal, who’s more of the brawn. Maven also obviously attempted to save Mare when she was in the cell and claimed that he was, “better than Cal.” And even though Maven is overcome with jealously at always being second place and second choice, he couldn’t have faked the kindness that he showed when he thought that no one was watching. In conclusion, I think that Maven is just jealous of Cal, is being used by his mother, and truly loves Mare. I hope to see his character develope more in Glass Sword and hopefully Mare can forgive him beacuse I’m really rooting for the underdog. And, besides, if there’s anything that we learned from reading Red Queen it’s that there I ALWAYS a bigger game being played and anyone can betray anyone. I’m not quite sure what game Maven is playing, but my gut tells me that he’s not evil.

    P.S. On page 376 of Red Queen, when Mare thinks, “Rainwater runs into his eyes, but he doesn’t blink. He doesn’t want to miss my death.” I feel like Maven was actually really worried and scared that Mare was going to die and couldn’t take his eyes off of her…ot maybe he was in on the Scarlet Guard’s rescue and was waiting for them anxiously? It sounds far-fetched, but that’s my opinion.

    1. I agree with you. I think his mother is very powerful and has a very powerful hold over his mind. I’m hoping she’ll be killed and Maven will be released and his true self will be the kind person he was with Mare when no one was looking. I think he was scared too and deep down in the back of his mind he was hoping someone would save her. We will just have to wait and see what happens. I can’t wait for the Glass Sword.

  12. I think Red Queen was one of the best fantasy/distopian/love-triangle books I’ve read in a long time! You know how there are many similar books once there’s a genre/book that has been majorly successful and it just gets boring after a while, but Red Queen was just amazing from start to finish! And honestly? I so didn’t see that plot twist and Mavens betrayal coming which is also why I loved RQ so much it just totally caught me of guard or was rather a punch in the face (a good on at that πŸ˜€ )
    So in the beginning I shipped Mare with Cal although I also thought for a second Kiliorn would be a choice, too, making this the love triangle ( had read the Grisha Trilogy beforehand that’s why the assumption) but as soon as Maven came to be I was torn between Mare and him or Cal in the end I wanted it to be Maven. Then he betrayed them both and this just strengthened my feelings for this ship. After reading glass sword Maven and Mare are now my new OTP xD I can’t wait for Cruel Crown and don’t know what to do with my live until then because glass sword ended in such a cruel cliffhanger…

    1. Red Queen was so awesome, and Maven was so well written you can’t help but fall in love with him. I’m yet to read Glass Sword, and am hoping I can get to it soon because I want to read it so bad and read more about Maven. I am not looking forward to this cruel cliffhanger though. Waiting for a book to come out can be so painful.

      1. Yes, you have to read Glass Sword as soon as you can! It’s just as amazing, and now I can’t wait for the third book and you’ll probably feel the same. This series just got me hooked and is messing with my life, especially Maven! You’re right: as much as you should probably hate him, you just can’t! And I ship Maven and Mare so hard and I swear I’ll go down with this ship πŸ˜€

  13. I guess you can judge Cal’s feelings but his actions. It’s just that Mare is too blind to see it. No all silvers are cold and ruthless. When I was reading the book, my mind always wander to Coriane because I can feel that Cal’s warmth and kindness comes from his mother. Way to go House Jacos. I don’t feel any connection with Maven throughout the book and he’s always his mother’s son. I believe that a passionate King is not a weak King. A prince who can remember all his brethrens’ name will make a fine leader. Hopefully Cal will be the one.

    1. I think Cal would make a great king, and believe not all Silvers are cold and ruthless too. I had high hopes for Maven and he really let me down.

  14. When Cal first came to the picture I knew that Mare and him had chemistry. I had thought that the love triangle was going to be between Cal and Kilorn. But than I meant Maven whose betrayal I did not see coming!!! I was very upset because I always root for the underdog. I also hope that Maven is under his Mother’s power and can fight itπŸ˜†

    1. It was so upsetting when Maven turned and will be heart breaking if he is really evil and not just under his mother’s power. Fingers crossed.

  15. Okay, I was completely blinded by Maven and did not expect the betrayal. (Yes, I cried over that part) I really liked Maven and Cal. But, Cal had a soft and hard side, that I liked. CAL FOR LIFE!!! I really hope someone kills Maven very soon (hopefully Mare, Cal, or Kilorn) because I am mad at him.

  16. OH MY GOSH SAME I FELT THE EXACT SAME THING IN YOUR REVIEW. The moment Mare said in the beginning that she knew Maven had his secrets, I knew he was going to betray her but I kept hoping I was wrong and I completely fell for Maven’s charm

    1. It was such an awful feeling wasn’t it, falling for him when you just knew he was going to betray her. He was just so charming, it was hard for many of us readers to resist him, I think.

  17. I just finished Red Queen too, and as much as I want to continue, I don’t want to read two more books of Mare/Cal, when I’m still rooting for Maven (despite his psychotic tendencies, I think he has a genuine affection for Mare and if it wasn’t for his mother I think he would be a pretty genuine person)

  18. I actually wanted Mare to be with Cal in the first place. The chapter where Cal teaches her how to ballroom dance and the chapter where they kissed, were my two favorite chapters. I kept on re-reading it. I also like the idea that Kilorn and Cal dislike eachother, because I like this love triangle better than the one with Maven in it. Mostly because Maven was kinda of confusing to understand.

    1. Even though I liked Mare and Maven together, I loved those chapters too. I liked that Kilorn and Cal dislike each other, but I still liked the Cal and Maven love triangle more. In the end I hope she ends up with Cal.

  19. I’m going to be honest, I love Mavin… I think that even though he did all the bad things he’s not a bad guy. He really really wanted what his brother had and the pressure of his father was to much. So if you think he’s evil then that’s your opinion, but I love him. I find it funny tbh that people love Cal, but I can’t stand him. πŸ˜‚. I’m not an evil person, I swear…

    1. Everyone has their own taste and that’s fine. I think Mavin was easy to love so he is also easy to hate. I’m still hoping that there is some kind of redemption for him.

  20. I am reading the King Cage now, and honestly, it’s impossible but just want that she end up with Kilorn. You will see in the second book, he’s so sweet, kind and funny. I can’t understand why Mare prefer Cal, when a guy like Kilorn loves her, that don’t make sense. If you don’t want Kilorn, Mare, I wanna. Give him to me

    1. I’ll be reading King’s Cage soon I hope. I kind of went off Kilorn in Glass Sword. I don’t think he and Mare would be a good match and I think he deserves to be with someone who would love him back with the same intensity that he loves her.

  21. I was sure Maven was “his mother’s son”. She is in his head the whole time, of course she would have known about the Scarlet Guard,the attack,the planning. The signs where there: He initially reacts with disdain when they tell him he is to marry her but then -possibly after a scheming session with his mother- changes his attitude almost immediately, and that made me suspicious. He has a way with words and extreme persuasive powers, if you think that he tricked a red servant and Farley. Julian who is by far the wisest character tries to warn Mare. He was too good to be true : a silver turning against his own to plan a coup. Plain as day. I think he started feeling for Mare when he realised she was seeing something more in him than any other person did, but that’s not love,it’s an obsession. I knew the betrayal was coming and I was a bit frustrated with Mare for not seeing it and for trusting him so blindly with secrets- when she knew he spent so much time around his mother. Even more so since she knows what the queen is capable of! Like, wake up girl! Also, the “anyone can betray anyone” was such a hint. There was something that didn’t work out the way I wanted though. When they threw them in the arena at the end, I really thought Mare’s power would work despite their teacher being there since she is “red and silver and stronger than both” and since she can create electricity rather than just use it. I know it never worked in training, but she was not in a life or death situation there. Or didn’t I understand that part about her powers correctly?πŸ€” Still, killing him was a great move because then Cal could fight. πŸ˜„

    1. I knew the whole time what was coming, I just hoped I was wrong. It’s been a while since I read Red Queen and don’t remmeber that much about the ending, I’d have to reread it, but if the teacher could mute powers, then no matter if it is a life and death situation, even Mare couldn’t summon her own powers despite how strong she is.

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